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So what do you guys think?

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mastajwood Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
i agree for the most part with what he's saying. you have to be stern about making money for your art. on the flip side of that, i did do a free job which landed me a deal doing several covers that got released and a deal with an agent who has since got me paid work. so it's a two edge sword. my case is unique, 99% of the time free gigs means no money down the road and no real exposure.
padraven Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Great video, pure true!!
LightingSaber Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013  Student Digital Artist
You know in my country, people have this mindset that people who study art are going to have no job, have no life. And they will keep thinking that way, as the industry itself IS the poison, since everyone thinks that way : Free is good for your own career.

The professionals will ask for free works from the talented 'newbies' ; sometimes they pay, but with such small amount of money.

Well I remain as a design student. People don't respect us at all. This makes me feel so depressed when I start thinking 'bout my future career. Sometimes I can't sleep at all when I think about that.
That's the environment I am living in, and I don't know when it will gets better.

I shared this video via my FB acc and my page. I hope they will at least learn something about it.
Artists are human, they don't survive with only imaginations and creativity, we NEED real money and people should appreciate what the real artists had done for the society.

Thanks for sharing this. :)
A-s-t-r-a Featured By Owner Feb 17, 2013  Student General Artist
Ну что ж....Чувак чертовски прав. Ток отношение к художникам в Рашке вряд ли изменится после его пламенной иностранной речи.
agnidevi Featured By Owner Feb 17, 2013   Digital Artist
Опа... сама Астра явилась! :wow:

:worship: :worship: :worship:
A-s-t-r-a Featured By Owner Feb 17, 2013  Student General Artist
joshrother Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Very well said. I couldn't agree more.
MiltonTeruel Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Always think long-term. Does that freebie really create an opportunity for you to make a living? Or is it just a favor done for someone who cannot or will not reciprocate? Doing work for free based on the idea that one of those jobs might lead to a big opportunity is like playing a lottery because one of those tickets may win and give you a fortune in money. Sure, it could happen, but the odds are small and in the meantime you're wasting a precious resource.

Look out for yourself. People will try to take advantage of you. Some will do it on purpose, some will think that they are doing you a favor, or that it's no big deal for you to do something for them. Always think, how does this freebie help me in the long term? And be realistic. Most people cannot provide you the opportunities that you need, and few will even care. Don't leave your fate in the hands of random chance, when you can direct your future yourself. The person who is driven and focused will succeed long before the person hoping that one of his freebies will turn into the opportunity of a lifetime.
OceanwaveII Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well I am all for charging for labor , But there no way to stop people from sharing abstract ideas , The Value of art was based on an Economic institutions of Europe and some kind of physical content .. if the Value is scarcity then some images just aren't as valuable as others (countless elf picture for instance ) (If your drawing from some obscure Welsh mythology or India your work is more valuable )
WadeFurlong Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
Saw this when he posted. DA has far too many people doing just this.
BootlegComix Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
There is a really nifty flow chart at that echo almost everything said here.

There is something to be said about working for free while you are learning the required skills and then charging once you are good enough to do it professionally but that is something you have to be honest with yourself about.
MechaBennett Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
He is right, I feel like there to many people that under value them selves. And I think some people miss some of the point. If your posting your art work up for people to see, Thats you doing your own thing, it isn't something that people are profiting from( maybe inspiring but not profit), and its ok to share for free. But anytime someone can make money of your art work, so should you.

If you can make more money being payed minimum wage at Mcdonalds than how much time you spent doing your art, you are really under valuing yourself....the government made minimum wage so people aren't getting complete ripped off for there wages, but if your doing your work for far less your just steeling from yourself.

I do think Artist are wimps and don't stand up for them selves. "At least I'm doing what I love" is such a pep talk to justify getting pooped, but people should put themselves higher pedestal. someone might think Silver is full of him self for saying something like that, but i think its because no one is use to an artist talking. ha
Kalnaur Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Yes, this is very important to remember. It may not be the only viewpoint, but it is one of the most true ones.
Sedeptra Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Да, все правильно говорит. Я бы сказала, что это касается и тех людей, кто работает за гроши, и стесняется просить нормальную оплату, не только тех, кто работает вообще бесплатно. Каждое такое решение каждого художника опускает общий уровень и угрожает не только его карьере, но и карьерам других, всех, кто работает в той же области.
RogueWriter3201 Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
Others artists I love/respect posted this video and, well, frankly, I found it rather irritating. He comes off as overly elitist, and downright paranoid in his stance that 'no art should be given for free' and that any artist who does so is somehow betraying something akin to a sacred brotherhood of artists or wrecking the careers of fellow artists. I get that his initial point is not to do art for big companies for free as they have the means to pay and, rightly so, they should.

However, towards the end his argument spirals into an attack on *any* free art, whether it be requests done for fans or just general submissions to art sites like these. I just don't agree with that.

Artists who post art for recognition do often find it (several artists seen here on DA have been featured prominently on sites like Kotaku, I09, and The Escapist) and those who, as previously mentioned, complete requests often find their fan-bases swelling with appreciative people who (when they don't do something abhorrent like trying to sell said art on Etsy or Ebay) are more then happy to spread the word about the skills of said generous artist.

So, long story short, I find him rather full of, well, you get the idea :movingon:
Stripwalker Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Professional Artisan Crafter
I agree with glenboy26 on this one- its an opinion piece that starts off well and informative and had me nodding along... then sort of degrades into a generalized rant that comes off as more bitter emotion than words of wisdom. Id imagine that its part of the frustration of making a wage doing his art- I can sympathize. But then a lot of us do the same and its our choice to do so. Over saturated markets are hardly the sole domain of artists lol... do I get lowball offers? ALL THE TIME. If its not a fair deal I pass on it and if I like what is offered I take it- simple.

So do I think people should ask and expect a fair price for their efforts: yes.

Do I think that doing art and then sharing it for free ruins the genre/profession/whatever: hell no- in my opinion if someone wants to share what they made and they dont feel the need to charge for it then thats their right just as asking for a fee is within the rights of those who dont share.

But then whenever times get tough peoples tolerance tends to polarize and so Im not surprised that it resonates with so many people right now
RogueWriter3201 Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
Well said :nod:
Illmad Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks for sharing this.
lostzion Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
200% accurate, i haven't had a lot of work as a traditional artist, but i have done a lot of design work. My rules are simple to protect everyone involved 25% down to start work 25% at first draft 25% at second draft. 25% at completion, if at any point someone wants to walk away you still made money for you time. The only way to change an industry is for everyone involved to step up. Also i believe as a community we don't need to compete with each other, you being a great artist doesn't hinder me, it make people respect my field more. So I'm not going to price gouge you, I'm just going to find my own clients. Well that's my 2 cents. (you is intended as a whole here not calling one person out)
Carbon-Vanilla Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree 120%!!
I'm gonna go subscribe to Mr. Silvers youtube. :meow:
QuantumCrab Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
This to infinity. I'm never gonna be an art pro; coming at it too late in the game. But if I get to the point where someone asks me to draw their OC or a buddy asks me to draw an RPG character, you better believe even that intimate gesture will have a price tag, even if it's a batch of cookies or that +2 sword they just got. SOMETHING. Because effort is NOT free. So this, this, this. Protect yourselves. Demand your due.
Morganza Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
I totally agree. Most people have no clue how hard it is to learn to draw and think it's fun for you anyway, I've put 40+ years into it as well and I'm still not happy with my current level but I will be paid for my time because I have invest my lifetime into it.
ReddEra Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Thank you for posting this. I have been having this conversation with a lot of artists lately. The other concern other than being used is that companies and patrons think that they can get high quality art for free or low cost. Which means that those of us that charge decent prices do not get work because people know they can get it for nothing or next to nothing. It is infuriating, it hurts the market and it hurts all artists (those who say yes to free art and those who say no)
SullenSquid Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
thumbs up on all eight tentacles! ... couldn't agree more!
thx for sharing
JenniferHealy Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Professional General Artist
Very glad you came across this. He should rant more often!
DarkerEve Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
I Totally agree 1,000,000.000% with Mr. Silver on this.
Keydan Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
For those who have talent and whose work is really worth money this is an ideal tactic.
SnowyBrush Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Several years ago in your blog, Leo, you posted an article about this (yes, I remember that old times). There was a link to an article about pricing for photographers. The author there said 'Either charge the full price or make a gift and remember that this gift costed you the price you would charge for it otherwise'. Good advice, I clearly remember it, didn't find the post in the blog though.
deviantART muro drawing Comment Drawing
SnowyBrush Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Err... Didn't know how to remove that 'muro drawing' thing from post.
MMurphyArt Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I think you make some very valid points and although I have seen video's like this (specifically for graphic design) I think it is important that people keep making them and sharing them. This needs to become common knowledge. Emphasis on picking your charities wisely, whether they are family members or actual charities. Devaluing your own work will eventually make you devalue your own abilities.
ERO-47 Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Agree agree agree
harkins Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
That guy speaks the truth!
ogidan Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
I'd only add, that you have to include your family in it. No free work means no free work, you're building your professional position by networking too, so if your uncle/mother wants something for their job or company - take money for this, so when word spreads people will look at work of professional, not a talented family member.
Mistiqarts Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Value. Your.Work. YES!
DanteDemolition Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013   General Artist
I absolutely agree with Silver.
StriderDen Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
I think it's almost unavoidable to discuss in the broad daylight the subject of copyrights, patents and freedom of information. I believe some people may get confused, and it would be nice to put some light on the subject. It's very different to charge for your work a fair ammount to make the standard of living you want, and to use and/or defend copyright laws.

When you charge for your work, as the video said, you will charge for the time you spent working on it plus the you spent learning to get there. Totally fair.

BUT defending or using copyright/patent laws is a mistake.

Firstly because it's NOT for incentive or protecting artists. If you make one good work, and receive royalties for the rest of your life, you're most likelly to produce less and less art. Not more. Imagine a doctor who made one surgery, and gets paid for the rest of the patient's life.

Second, because it's NOT the Artists who benefit from it, it's the corporations. They're the parasites receiving royalties from the copies distributed. Usually the creators are long dead, or long fired.
Imagine a game company: While the developers and artists receive a steady salary only while they're working on the project, the ones who will get paid looong after the game is done, are the shareholders.

So, my point is:
Support a fair payment for artists, protect your career, but support free information by being against copyright laws!
Cut the middle man, use crowdfunding or anything else! Don't rely on corporations!
Ishitara Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
We go all to the work in the morning, we spend hours to be worked to make our living, at the end of the month we have a pay and thanks to that we can live.
If our boss asked us to make something without being paid just because that takes us that 30 minutes we would be disgusted because is needed the experience to make it, and 30 minutes of remuneration it is not nothing, we need it.
The artists are not different. You should not forget that the art is useful for people, and that all which is useful deserves that we give something of equivalent value in exchange.
He(It) is even simpler for somebody to pirate an image than a movie or than a CD, and it is of the willingness of each of us which we need, of this recognition, today even when we are an artist.

I understand you.
Cookie-Splinters Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Its very true and even people like myself, lurking in the shadows, have come across this.

Exposure for the sake of exposure; I think it can only work with mutual trust, like Art-trades, or charity-work; because, there's a payoff there anyway, not in money, but something you can "settle for"

I think its very good that people are speaking up about this.
MarkoPou Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
True! my mother is a professional photographer and worked her whole life for that and still people come around and ask for free work, but the worst is if she denies it people get pissed off as if it was taken for granted. morons everywhere!
Ryuuhiken Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Student Filmographer
Exactly - that's about all I can say
MuffinChaser Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I agree with that. I've made that mistake a couple of times and although sometimes its my friends who ask me for free art, i still have to live off what I do. It's sad that people don't see the value of art and its creators.
JEBUTNY Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
Protect in 100%
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